ABC Home | Radio | Television | News | Your Local ABC | More Subjects… | Shop

Opinion

Opinions, essays, letters and comment on issues of national interest.

Email

Spin no cure for depression

By Bruce Haigh

Posted November 17, 2008 09:24:00

A majority of Australian households built up a less than healthy debt on the basis of government and business spin.

A majority of Australian households built up a less than healthy debt on the basis of government and business spin. (ABC News: Giulio Saggin, file photo)

For the past six months, communiqués on the collapsing world economy have been increasingly grim. The retreat of markets has been as steady as it has been relentless.

For investors and superannuants weekends come as a relief - no bad news, as good as a spell out of the trenches. But the fear remains, the bombardment will recommence today.

Trembling money marketeers and business professionals have convinced the government the economic slide can be reversed through a boost in morale. They contend that it is all about confidence. It is not, it is structural, caused through poor lending practices in part driven by people seeking to live beyond their means.

Spin became a primary tool of government over the past few decades. With full employment and a rising stock market it worked. It worked so well that a majority of Australian households built up a less than healthy debt on the basis of government and business spin.

We were assured that Australia was rich and blessed and was likely to get richer and even more blessed, despite a growing shortage of water and encroaching climate change. The good news spin was an effective smokescreen. The plight of refugees, the war in Iraq, the underlying strength of the economy, failure to spend on public assets and the benefits of privatisation - all were spun.

But as the NSW government has discovered, past spin has all but spun them out of power.

We have a government who inherited the Howard spin machine and all the operatives that greased it. Rudd has been happy to use the Howard machine and his grease monkeys. He has praised, promoted and defended them but the spin machine could never be a substitute for substantive policy making and implementation.

Reality can't be spun, it just makes victims of the spinners, as Menzies discovered in 1941. It would not have been good for British morale during WW11 to do any less than tell it how it was and likely to be.

The Rudd government has sought to gild the lily over what Australia faces and will have to bear over the next two or three years. The extent of private debt will ensure a rough ride. Australian managers are no better than their overseas counterparts.

The level of corporate remuneration indicates that senior managers have been infected with greed and the loss of judgement that attends it. Many younger managers know nothing but the good times; they haven't been trained to manage hard times.

It is irresponsible and immature to attempt to hide prospective problems and possible and probable outcomes. How can Australia avoid what the embrace of globalisation will deliver? By what stretch of the imagination can Australia escape what has befallen other countries?

What we do have is time and we should be making use of it, but we are squandering it through self-defeating denial.

In my opinion it was not wise of the government to throw $10 billion into the economy just before Christmas. It smacked of panic. There is an old military maxim, never commit your reserves until you know the strength of your enemy.

Rudd has thrown in the palace guard with little prospect of new recruits. He is going to have to introduce conscription - to go into debt. There's nothing wrong with that, except that he might have had $10 billion of real money to judiciously deploy on strategic targets when they presented themselves.

This panicked response is like pouring petrol on the dying embers of a camp fire at dawn. The fire will certainly flare, but when it dies down there will be little left of it. Rather he should have scouted around for some timber and gradually built the fire up again.

What is required is some leadership. Tell it like it is so that the rest of Australia can all make some timely and prudent decisions.

This is not a time for bureaucratic mumbling; this is a time to appeal to the strengths of the nation. Plain, clear headed, honest speech, of a type that Australians and their leaders were once noted for.

Rudd and the Labor Party need to take a leaf out of Barack Obama's public presentation notebook.

For if they don't, in twelve months time, Malcolm Turnbull and his air of certainty will look a lot like authority and leadership. The deniers still have an edge, but for how long? And when reality bites, how far will be their fall from grace?

Ask Nathan Rees: hell hath no fury like an electorate scorned.

Gird your loins, we are in for a tough few years, but as a nation we will come out of it stronger, more cohesive, more efficient and more self-sufficient.

Bruce Haigh is a political commentator, somewhat troubled investor and irrigator.

Tags: business-economics-and-finance, economic-trends, government-and-politics, federal-government, leadership, international-financial-crisis, australia

2008 Year In Review

ABC News Online takes a look at the big stories from 2008.

Comments (101)

Comments for this story are closed. No new comments can be added. If you would like to have your say on this issue, you can do so via the Emails section of our Opinion pages.

  • graeme:

    17 Nov 2008 9:56:36am

    I'm over the blaming on sub-prime mortgages and bad US homebuyers. Most "business acquisiations, company takeovers, et al, are financed by the banks. Huge unproductive loans.
    Keating got Austalia saving via compulsory super.
    Costello got Australia spending and borrowing and calling it growth.
    I don't see how Turnbull can turn bull into gold, but he can sure talk down the economy.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • unfoiled :

        17 Nov 2008 10:27:57am

        It is the responsability of each person to look after their own debt.
        Some people have spent beyond their means. that is not the fault of any govt.
        How many people dont know their is stamp duty to pay when you buy a house or land.
        How many people budgeted for interest rate rises.
        How many critisised John Howard and said it was spin when he said "if you dont need to change govt. DONT".
        The thing John Howard had was WISDOM and EXPERIENCE and he was so right!!!!!!!

        Agree (1) Alert moderator

          • Emess:

            17 Nov 2008 11:20:23am

            Foiled,

            The point is that Howard and Costello consistently told us how well off we were, and refused to address the fact that Australia was living well above its means.

            The problem with that refusal is that sooner or later, the crunch has to come, and it takes the whole economy with it, not just those who lived beyond their means. So, sure you are right that it should be the responsibility of each person to look after their own debt, but when that debt gets so large it brings the economy down around the rest of us, the Government of Howard and Costello should have stepped in.

            When this happened in the nineties, Keating gave us the recession we had to have - and that brought private debt levels back to manageable.

            Costello refused to do that, and the debt has now mounted to the point that as it unwinds, it is going to be a nightmare to make Keating's recession look like a dream.

            Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • moses:

                17 Nov 2008 12:17:13pm

                Me thinks that is why Costello was so reluctant at the end of the day to take of Johnnys position.... he knew what was laying ahead & was more then happy to allow somebody else to wear the blame.

                It suited him to ride the wave high when he was in govt but the current situation not withstanding, economies run on a somehwta cyclical nature. When Howard & Costello were in power they rode the crest of that cyclical wave. It does not matter who won the 2007 election, we were headed for the same dumping were geting now.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Tag:

                17 Nov 2008 12:39:58pm

                So true.

                The ALP will get the blame for the recession, as usual.

                Then when the crisis is over, the Libs will ride in on a white horse to turn on the lights. They will be in charge for the next ten years, until the next boom is over.

                Then the ALP will get the next recession.

                Ah, the cycles of history.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Bertrand:

                17 Nov 2008 1:10:13pm

                Blamed as usual? THe last one was 7 years into their term. Who else would you blame?

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • maggzs:

                17 Nov 2008 1:19:29pm

                It is not a case of blaming as such Bertrand, more as Moses suggests more of a cyclical situation regarless of who is in power.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Spooky:

                17 Nov 2008 2:09:24pm

                But the problem is what the government of the day is doing.

                Rudd is sinking 10 Billion into the economy to shore up our Christmas. This is because while we might ignore the news, a collapse over Christmas is likely to upset a lot of people.

                The people will blame a government for a financial downturn, even if the government is not responsible. That is just the nature of the general public.

                If a government spends 10 Billion just to try and stop that blame from being generated, they are wasting money which might be badly needed in 6 months.

                Rudd is dangerously close to mismanaging this crisis. He is overconfident because of the Liberal surplus. If he spends this money incorrectly, he will have problems in the next election. He already created a mini crisis with his bank guarantees, and that was just political spin.

                And what about the presence of this massive surplus? People keep saying that the Liberals did nothing to plan for the imminent recession. What about the massive surplus they were stocking up? Looks like they knew we had tough times ahead.

                And next election the question would be this: Would the Libs have spent the surplus more wisely?

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Id:

                17 Nov 2008 4:08:37pm

                The blame is fairly in the court of the share market gamblers,particularly the huge superannuation funds who urged the gambling frenzy on.
                Until shares may be traded only at face value ( as it used to be ) gamblers will think of all sorts of schemes to make a quick buck.
                Hedge markets, futures, put and call options,short selling and the like are no less gambling than a punt on the horses.
                As for the idiots who remortgaged their homes particularly to buy on margins, they were first class suckers.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Bill Anderson:

                17 Nov 2008 4:09:43pm

                The Howard government would not have had the 10 billion. They had already spent it on election promises, trying to bribe their way into another term.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Milly:

                17 Nov 2008 4:23:49pm

                I think the latest polls suggest the majority of Australians consider Rudd's handling of the crisis is fairly on the mark. If not his & his governments rating would not continually be increasing. And as for your comment that the Libs knew we had tough times ahead...then they spent a hell of a lot of time telling us how great we were...I guess that means they were just lying to us. Oh no they never did that now did they!

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Sammy:

                17 Nov 2008 3:56:18pm

                This will not be a "cyclical depression", but rather a balance sheet correction followed by a world wide depression.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • coloru:

                17 Nov 2008 4:43:40pm

                while i generally agree that Costello and Howard played with the good but did nothing to moderate the heights to prevent such a crash, I do still believe there is a significant personal responsibility. especially the big superannuation investors such as baby-boomer gen. they pushed their money into an over inflating market, pushed up the house prices at record rates and now, while they sit back and feel humbled, the real effects are being felt by young families, the low-income earners and other vulnerable groups.

                and now these investors are crying blue murder and expecting yet more public funding to bail them out.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

          • Somewhat Perplexed:

            17 Nov 2008 11:26:15am

            I guess with the 4 part series kicking off tonight we will find how wise the man really is.

            We already now from the pre-discussion that he was not wise enough to work out that children were not thrown overboard.

            Lets see what the rest unfurls over the coming weeks.

            Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • John:

                17 Nov 2008 4:37:33pm

                Cunning is a better descriptor than wise. Politicians are cunning. Leaders are wise.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

          • Wolfgang Dempsey:

            17 Nov 2008 2:31:38pm

            Whilst I agree with the first 2 paragraphs, I strongly disagree with the closing sentiment.
            Was Howard wise getting involved in Iraq, or the "overboard-affair"etc? He was simply lucky riding with the China-induced resources demand and he was lucky to lose the election, so he need not manage the credit crisis eminating from the US onto the world. Some people need to remove their rose-coloured glasses (or their biased political judgement) and consider the reality of the times.

            Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • unfoiled :

                17 Nov 2008 3:22:27pm

                Howard was wise not to have an offensive role in Iraq.
                Australian troops were more of a training, peacekeeping, rebuilding role.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Bill Anderson:

                17 Nov 2008 4:14:02pm

                They still cost australian taxpayers billions. For what gain? To say that Iraq would have been worse without it is unmitigated claptrap. When Obama gets the US out of Iraq, things will calm down.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Willster:

                17 Nov 2008 4:22:23pm

                "Some people need to remove their rose-coloured glasses (or their biased political judgement)"

                So true Wolfgang. You among them. Howard reformed the tax system, the industrial relations system, and the waterfront, all key elements in delivering economic prosperity. He didn't just sit back and ride the wealth of the mining industry as Labor would like you to believe.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

          • Milly:

            17 Nov 2008 4:35:11pm

            Fact of the matter is unfoiled,
            the majority of the Australian voters DID feel we need to change & according to the latest polls are still very happy with that change.

            As for the Wisdom & experience, all that didnt help Honest Johnny win his own seat, something only ever occuring once before where a prime minister has lost his own seat.

            Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • Spooky:

        17 Nov 2008 11:55:05am

        Anyone with basic economic skill (high school level) could have seen that we had already hit a peak. The recession was ready to start, and it was simply a matter of what event would trigger it.

        And now the governments are all scrambling around, trying to look like they are doing something.

        This is because of the nature of the public. The public doesnt know about basic economics, or the fact that recessions are inevitable. Instead, they have been basking in the growth, assuming that the governments have been responsible for the good times.

        Now the good times are over, people will look for someone to blame.

        Lets blame the government. They took the undeserved credit for the boom. So why should they avoid the undeserved blame for the recession?

        Or blame the banks. They were greedy. They gave out risky loans, because they wanted to maximise profits. Now the default on those loans has led to banks collapsing, undermining global confidence.

        Or how about blaming the customers? After all, they were the ones who took out loans they were unable to repay. They dug their own pit, and then scream bloody murder when they are unable to get out of debt.

        The reality is that nobody is to blame. All we can do is deal with it.

        Take whatever precautions you can. Watch what you spend. Pay off your debt. Ease up on the credit cards. Change your super to a more secure plan.

        And take the government spin with a pinch of salt.




        Agree (0) Alert moderator

          • M:

            17 Nov 2008 2:20:16pm

            I agree with you Spooky.

            What annoys me is how many people bought into the lies of the previous government - which the Rudd government is continuing - that government policy controls the economy.

            As an example, Howard's promise of keeping interest rates low at the last 2 elections was complete nonsense. The reserve bank, which is independent, sets the rates. They don't pick random numbers for it, or get advised by the government, instead the RBA uses the cash rate to control inflation. It amazes me the amount of clueless people on this forum who think they can do a better job than the RBA.

            The other example is Rudd's $10B stimulus package. I'm skeptical it will do anything, because the downturn is due to global factors.

            Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • James:

                17 Nov 2008 3:43:59pm

                That's not entirely true - the spending allocation model of Y shows us that in the long-run it is Government expenditure + inflation that determines interest rates. In a nut-shell, the country has so much productive capacity, and the government takes its share first by setting taxes, etc. Whatever is left over can be used by consumers, by indutry in building more productive capacity and exported. If we use more than our productive capacity, we're importing a lot and getting into debt, getting risker and real (as in without inflation) interest rates rise. We also see prices rise because people needs to pay rising interest bills and prices rise because demand is higher. A government CAN keep interest rates low with an independant reserve bank IF that government keeps its taxes and spending low. The problem is all of this middle-class welfare, these baby bonuses, transfers, etc. It has to stop. Working families would be better off with lower taxes and less government:)

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Don:

                17 Nov 2008 3:55:59pm

                M
                "The other example is Rudd's $10B stimulus package. I'm skeptical it will do anything"

                Mine will be spent installing a solar hot water system (manufactured in Australia)

                The money will be injected straight back into the Australian economy. It will benefit the economy, the environment and over the time it will benefit me by lowering my electricity bill.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • mike says it was planned:

        17 Nov 2008 12:53:48pm

        Spin = turning truth into... lies and lies... into truth = pro-pagan-da

        The subprime loans built 'real' houses on 'real' land and the funny imagined money lent to the real people was loaded with the equivalent of BUY NOW nothing to pay 3 years interest free crazy crazy loans by Banks Pty Ltd...

        NOW THEY GET 'REAL' HOMES FOR PAPER

        THE PEOPLE BORROWED 'PAPER'

        When the 'real' people lost... the 'real' houses are still there...NOTHING 'REAL' WAS LOST

        The people are not the problem,,, nor is the money lost,,, the houses still exist,,, the problem is

        The Banks Pty Ltd have been lending TRILLIONs to crazy naked gambling Banks Pty Ltd to bet in the Derivitaves Casino....

        The Casino shut down and nobody can pay the $1000 Trillion Derivitaves because they never ever ever ever ever ever had the money they Gambled with....

        NOW they Banks Pty Ltd want ... YOU... to pay for ALL the missing NON existant money ...IMAGINARY FIAT CURRENCY $0.00 BACKED BY INK AND AIR $0.00 that took everybodies 'real' money out (DEPOSITS AND SUPER FUNDS) in CRAZY crazy loans to Banks Pty Ltd and their Derivitave Dealing naked betters...

        The entire GDP of the Earth is $70 Trillion they gambled 13 times or more this amount... see the P R O B L E M IS P T Y L T D... MAKE THEM PAY.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • John Michaels:

    17 Nov 2008 10:15:44am

    A bit of honest talking might help, or it might just take the depression to all new lows. How do you think the baby boomers are feeling when they think about having to work for the next 10 years to make up for the greatest loss on superannuation savings in the last 10 years?

    Unfortunately most Australians were sold on the spin that the good times were here and here to stay. This led to a lot of upfront credit being given to people that should never have qualified for it and they spent it on assets of a depreciating value. At the same time the previous Government made it even harder for local students to get University education by increasing fees, increasing full fee places, and then by all but abolishing HECS to replace it with something that doesn't cover the cost of your degree.

    Now we have the economic management of Mr. Rudd and Co. throwing money at people just before Christmas so that there might be some chance of saving the services, think any shopping centre, industry from collapse over the next 6 months. I don't agree with what he is doing however I do understand it.

    Australia used to be a self sufficient Nation. It wasn't until some people in Government thought "interdependency" would be a good idea for the country that there were wholesale changes to the way Australia fed itself. Now we buy all of our consumables from everywhere else. I dare you to go to the supermarket and tell me the percentage of Australian products that remain on the shelves. And I don't mean the token "packaged in Australia" homebrand peanut butter. You're right. Too many people believed the spin yet too many of those who avoided it are still going to pay for the mistakes of the others.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • stephen michael:

        17 Nov 2008 10:31:11am

        almost all the fresh food in the big supermarkets comes from australia.

        "interdependency" has created our affluence. without it we'd b living in one of the developing countries that r being hit by the crisis too.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

          • John Michaels:

            17 Nov 2008 11:07:47am

            I'm guessing you mean our debt, not our affluence. Affluence only comes from having money in the bank and Australia's personal debt is around $650 Billion. That's almost $31,000 for every man, woman, and child. As for the "fresh" food you should take a better look. Not all of it is grown in Australia.

            Maybe I should have said it like this. Australia used to be a self sufficient Nation that had the ability to feed and clothe large sections of the rest of the world, now all we do is send it to China for next to nothing and pay through the tooth to import it back in.

            Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Bob:

                17 Nov 2008 12:06:56pm

                The country running a current account deficit, and therefore a capital account surplus, is not necessarily a bad thing . A lot of that $650 billion is simply due to there not being enough capital internally in Australia to fund the expansion the country needs/wants.

                If you have every borrow money in your life to purchase anything such as a house, then it is likely you used a component of overseas funding It is very easy to say that it is all for irresponsible consumption and it works to great effect, but it is simply not true.

                However, I think that we should allow super-funds to lend money to banks for certain types of loans (mortgages with reasonable LVR ratios) to lower the need to tap the overseas funding market

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • John Michaels:

                17 Nov 2008 12:24:21pm

                So what happens if house prices fall to below the purchase price as what has happened in the U.S.A.? Let's face it. A lot of that $650 Billion has been based on the unsustainable increase in property prices not infrastructure. If it was Government borrowings on infrastructure it would be a different story. As it stands Australia does little more than dig stuff out of the ground to send overseas to be refined and import back as a finished product.

                I'm not saying that interdependency is a bad thing, just that the focus on Australia being reliant on other countries was unjustifiable when you now have countries like Thailand protecting their own food security. I'm also not saying the debt is a bad thing, just that there has been too much reliance on debt to create the image of affluence rather than create affluence. Who was it that said "image is everything"?

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Water:

                17 Nov 2008 2:40:58pm

                If house prices fall below the purchase price then nothing happens. When a house price falls below the purchase price your house doesn't suddenly turn from a three bedroom to a two bedroom. The rooms don't suddenly shrink to a smaller size. It's still the same house you brought for the price you paid. It's still the same home you live in. Regardless of what it's worth on paper it's still the same place. And in a few years time, it will go up in price again. If you don't sell, you haven't lost anything.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • watcha:

                17 Nov 2008 12:25:29pm

                It is a little known fact that China earns more from OUR exports through taxation than the Australian Government does.

                Following the meeting of both governments yesterday about "free trade" I doubt that the government could instigate a tariff on imported goods fom China.

                I for one would like to see parity on these export taxes, after all it is our dirt we are exporting.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • pete:

                17 Nov 2008 12:36:37pm

                People are in personal debt of their own choosing. I don't own a cent to anyone and will be thrilled when I can purchase a 'first home' following the inevitable housing crash fueled by speculation and negative gearing - assuming of course I'm not taxed into oblivion supporting those who gambled.

                We can't compete with cheap Asian imports, the horse has bolted on that one. Why should I as a taxpayer that doesn't drive a car prop up an uncompetitive, foreign owned, car industry? Who in a recession can afford a new car anyway?

                Australia needs to stop playing the victim here and develop export industries, e.g. tackling climate change, that the rest of the world actually want. I think economists call this 'balance of trade'.

                Otherwise, we'll have 2 million unemployed of those whose livelihoods, e.g. in retail and hospitality, depend on the consumption of others. A $10B bailout will mean stuff all.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Ron Santen:

    17 Nov 2008 10:18:13am

    If putting more control and regulations on the whole finance sector, and banks in particular, is not the outcome of this whole crisis then all the spin and talk by politicuans and leaders has been a total waste of time.

    To allow the people who control and administer banks and finance houses to continue to use funds to benefit profits, their own salaries and the so-called dividends of share owners (and I dont totally believe that) is a crime.

    Self-regulation has been a total failure and its now the role of government to regulate these institutions with a very firm hand, and forget the mythology of the 'free market'.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • Spooky:

        17 Nov 2008 12:18:10pm

        The banks have financed countless corporate projects around the globe. They are one of the primary sources of economic growth, both global and domestic.

        How many times have people bought a car or a house without a loan? Or lived without a credit card? In the end, the banks have been responsible for the lives we live today. If you can not access bank loans, you are seriously limited in your financial ability.

        But now the recession is here, nobody likes the bank anymore. What did they do to deserve such treatment?

        Banks exist to make a profit. They represent a business, with shareholders. Why do people think they are a charity, or a social service? They loan you money, so you can purchase things you could not normally afford. In exchange, you must pay back debt and interest.

        The problem is that the banks extended loans to the poor. They credit to people who should never have got it. The banks took a risk, and they lost.

        But we blame the banks, not the customers. Why blame people, when you can blame a faceless entity?

        You think government regulation should be increased. I agree with you completely. The government should ensure that poor people are prevented from get their hands on credit. If you give them loans they cant repay, the result will be a banking crisis.

        And if a banking crisis occurs during the end of a boom, you get a recession.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

          • graeme:

            17 Nov 2008 3:49:23pm

            The big four Oz Banks are reasonable secure since they only create ten times as much loans as they hold in deposits. Costello kept the lending ratio up at 10%.
            In the US, ratios were down below 2%, ie for every two dollars in deposits, creating a hundred dollars in loans.
            Now, only 2% of those loans have to go bad, and the whole thing goes belly up. Govt ivesting more money into the US banks (if that's what they are doing, copying Brown in the UK), then their lending ratios will go up, so long as they don't keep making more loans. It is obvious that GWB doesn't have a clue.
            The four China Banks, International Settlements Bank, Rural Bank, Infrastructure Bank and Peoples Bank had, in August, 17% lending ratios.
            To help income in the rural areas, so as to catch up to urban chinese, the Rural Bank was allowed to create more money by having their lending ratios reduced.
            My guess is that their recent splurge was enabled by dropping the lending ratio of the infrastructure bank too.
            A controlled, regulated economy.
            George Bush believes in the free market, without regulations.
            I hope Obama gets better advice.

            Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • unfoiled :

    17 Nov 2008 10:21:20am

    Anyone in their right mind and with some wisdom would have seen 6 years ago that the bubble would burst. It was just a matter of when.
    My partner and I decided it was a good time to have no debt. We sold everything that had a mortgage and bought a business and house debt free. So far it has worked for us, as I said 'so far'.
    This year has been frustrating, seeing the govt. panic has done nothing for our confidance in business. Yet we continue to smile and remain cheerful to our customers and hope it will get better. Personally our energy is taking a battering.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • watcha:

        17 Nov 2008 11:37:20am

        OMG!!,

        The majority of people in a majority of states (and quite a few of them have mortgages) must be fools because they voted the Coalition out of office, now "This year has been frustrating."

        Someone get this man a tissue.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

          • Tag:

            17 Nov 2008 12:30:57pm

            A 'majority of people in a majority of states'?

            True, but only by less then 3%.

            The rest are free to criticize.

            Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • watcha:

                17 Nov 2008 12:41:22pm

                Don't blame me. I am not part of the 53%.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Tag:

                17 Nov 2008 1:06:22pm

                Well, 44% really.

                But as the point of the Greens is to scam votes for the 2 party system, I suppose 53% is correct.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

          • unfoiled :

            17 Nov 2008 1:00:30pm

            Actually the Greens won the election for the ALP!
            Im a women!
            And when John Howard said we've never been better off, I believe he was referring to the FACT that we had record LOW UNEMPLOYMENT and a strong economy.
            Costello was loyal to John Howard to the end. They had different opinions as to what was an agreement and Ian Mc Farlane was the fly in the ointment. Played right into the ALPs hands!

            Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • watcha:

                17 Nov 2008 1:21:27pm

                Yep, but Mr Howard is history, He won't be back and carping on about his political demise helps no-one.

                Who have the coalition got in his stead?

                Malcom Turnbull?!?

                How anyone could consider this fellow (who spent $10 million of taxpayers money on pie in the sky "cloudseeding" for absolutely NO RETURN) for PM or even Treasurer for that matter is beyond me.

                If the present government has done nothing in the past 12 months then it MUST have been the fault of the previous government (or conditions outside the present governments control) which has been battering your energy.

                If by panic you are refering to the $10.6 billion economic package then you should realise that that was not panic but a calculated vote buying exercise used for quieting the opposition about pensioners which was beginning to hurt them in the polls. It worked!.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • m1scha:

                17 Nov 2008 1:38:37pm

                Funny you should mention that. Us pensioners are doing things like; booking ourselves in to get our teeth done, buying shoes that fit, paying off bills, replacing stuff like washers and fridges that were new when you were born.

                What, you think its going on the grandkids, to buy them X-Boxes, you'll be lucky. So while you are down the club for Christmas, we might just have a little bit left over for a chop for our dinner.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Chappy:

                17 Nov 2008 1:55:49pm

                "How anyone could consider this fellow (who spent $10 million of taxpayers money on pie in the sky "cloudseeding" for absolutely NO RETURN) for PM or even Treasurer for that matter is beyond me."

                Well Watcha.....I'd probably consider an investment of $10M into cloud seeding money better well spent than $Kevvys'$ taxpayer funded...

                $6 million dollars into whale research...
                $18 million dollars into a failed fuelwatch website....
                $13 million dollars into grocerywatch website....

                for how much return...????

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Tag:

                17 Nov 2008 2:18:13pm

                Not to mention the 10 Billion for this pointless Christmas boost.

                And the pointless bank guarantee.

                How much of Howards surplus is he going to waste?

                All the work the Libs did to get us through the recession is swiftly going down the tubes.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Stomfi:

                17 Nov 2008 3:14:44pm

                The 10 billion is for me and my fellow OAPs who were too get compulsory super and didn't earn enough to put any aside let alone buy a house.

                Howard gave us a measly 1/2 of the minimum working wage, indexed against another index that only shows monthly changes of a group of products most of which we never buy.

                Our share of the 10B only amounts to an extra $20pw, when the cost of living for OAPs has risen at least $50.

                We worked for this country all our lives, why shouldn't we get something back when we are too old and infirm to work?

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • unfoiled :

                17 Nov 2008 2:01:12pm

                By 'Panic' I mean the obfuscate policies of the ALP such as Carbon Trading Sceme, Carbon Sequestration, Grocery watch, fuel watch and the indecision as to whether or not the economy is doing well at a particular time.
                They have been late to act and then over reacted.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • calyptorhynchus:

    17 Nov 2008 10:29:33am

    "It would not have been good for British morale during WW11 to do any less than tell it how it was and likely to be."

    Actually, apart from rare moments of candour like Churchill's "bllod, toil, sweat and tears" speech, news in WW2 was a ruthlessly spun as it is now.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • hugh jampton:

        17 Nov 2008 12:09:36pm

        Bruce Haigh obviously knows little about WW2 - my father told me of lot's bad news in Britain that he knew of that was hushed up - never generally reported. This was done to stop morale declining lower than it was already - things were pretty tough.

        The same thing happened in Australia.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • Tag:

        17 Nov 2008 12:34:53pm

        You think World War 11 was bad? What a joke.

        World War 8 was far worse.

        Kids these days need to learn a bit of history.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • not dormant:

    17 Nov 2008 10:53:50am

    It looks all the same as ever more circular arguments are presented by the week. If we don't understand what it means to live and die by a monetary debt finance - we stay inside the box.
    Inside the "debt box" won't be any solution, with or without spin. The world debt trajectory will demand to exploit 3 more planets right now to avoid inflation, and we think there is a solution somewhere ? The dysfunctional monetary system is now for 300 years in place - and we forgot how it all started with dreams of wealth then by borrowing NOW, and pay [maybe never] later. So what spin does it need to tell people that all their money is debt, and that to survive in the present system, we must make profit -profit on what, DEBT ??? That's semantically and mathematically impossible - or am I schizoid ?

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Lynne:

    17 Nov 2008 10:54:50am

    This financial disaster is probably a goddessend for the planet. The planet can't acually cope with such a consumption driven human race. Not far off is environmental collapse.
    Money is really just a medium of exchange for work and goods. Primitive people once used shells. It's logical that an economy will collapse if a small portion of the people start to hoard most of the "medium of exchange". It means less and less money is available in the general community and the ranks of the poor and the homeless grow which has happened and now it is reaching into the middle classes. Probably this is just a rather unpleasant part of the process where the middle classes crumble as the money is siphoned to those at the top through bank bailouts etc. Notice, there is no talk about getting money back from those greedy people who've been mismanaging the economy and causing the crisis.
    Instead of trying to prop up this old form it's probably time to admit we've been wrong and start to really prepare for the future.
    A lot of the world's economy is dependant on the armaments industry. It's provoking a lot of wars. If we work towards peace that is yet another part of the economy that will collapse.
    If the seas rise it will be a disaster for the Australian property sector. Life's like that. It will keep hitting you on the head until you co-operate and make the changes that are needed.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • Lindsay Cooper:

        17 Nov 2008 11:36:06am

        Lynne you are so correct, I am totally with you and I only wish that this present crisis would be enough of a warning for people to change their ways but I know that it won't do that at all. Mores the pity.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • jesuisunmenc:

        17 Nov 2008 4:37:52pm

        I'm with you on that one.

        Jarrod Diamond's book "Civilisation" talks about the collapse of some of the great culture cultures that once existed on this planet.

        One of the causes of collapse is that the wealthy decision makers don't wear the impact of the decay of society. They are protected by wealth and position. Society frays at the edges. Its only when its too late that the decision makers take heed of the situation, far too late.

        Its time to seriously reconsider rampant capitalism and its good buddy, consumerism.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Nathan:

    17 Nov 2008 11:15:08am

    The reserve bank also has a lot to answer for.
    Lets not beat around the bush, the Reserve made a monumental error in raising interest rates too much, too fast, all at a time when they knew a worldwide financial problem was unfolding, utter stupidity.
    Raising rates when they should have been waiting to see what effect it would have on the Australian economy first.
    Frankly I do not believe the stated justification for raising rates (inflation) as it was within the band, at the time I thought it is probably more to do with GDP being over 4% and the fear that it may lead to greater inflation later on.

    But now I believe that the rate rises were due to the fact they could see a financial tsunami was looming together with falling world demand, leading to falling mineral prices, and higher rates was the only insulation they could implement to protect the Aussie dollar. And how did that work out for them?

    Meanwhile they sit on their hands lowering rates 0.75% every month or so when they should be slashing rates 3-4% right now. Higher rates is like putting the anorexic patient on a diet (economy starvation).
    The patient needs food now, not in a few weeks or months time when it has gone into organ failure, yet the Reserve is not keen to open the larder too often just in case the anorexic patient gets fat.

    Fundamental errors are putting us in a much worse situation than we need to be in.
    Interest rates were raised when government policy should have been used to slow the economy, now they waste the budget surplus on a quick Christmas splurge when it should be used on perhaps infrastructure projects that may create jobs and have a more lasting effect on the economy. I feel it is likely the pensioners will hoard the lump sums anyway, after all wouldn't you tuck it away?




    Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • Another view:

        17 Nov 2008 12:34:41pm

        Yes Nathan.

        The Reserve Bank needs to find another tool to slow the economy down, rather than relying solely on raising interest rates.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

          • James A:

            17 Nov 2008 4:41:19pm

            The Reserve should have the ability to adjust income and business taxes also. That way it isn't just homeowners who are punished when rates rise.

            Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Pen Pal:

    17 Nov 2008 11:19:32am

    I assume Bruce Haigh is young enough to repair any financial damage done to his bank account during this GFC.

    Have pity Mr Haigh on us poor mortals who are just watching our prudent savings from many years effort just slip away. What will you do for us?

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Lindsay Cooper:

    17 Nov 2008 11:21:38am

    Bruce Haigh has it pretty close to the mark.

    But to expect any of our current crop of politicians to fix the problem is just wishfull thinking. Most of them have been born into politics, they don't know anything else bureaucratic mumbling and bumbling.

    Our type of government needs a complete new system to change the incompetent and disastrous ways that have emerged over the years.

    When are we going to ban currency trading, short selling, derivatives, hedge funds, unethical lending practises etc. etc. The list is long and goes on and on.

    We need a complete change including the people in power of looking after us who are obviously totally incompetent.

    Is this telling it straight enough.????

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • Somewhat Perplexed:

        17 Nov 2008 12:19:31pm

        On a Denton interview, Michael Parkinson made a comment about politicians.

        He pointed out most are now professional politicians with degrees in this and that and do not actually bear the scuff marks of life.

        I think the politicians are wary of this. Mr Turnbull was at pains to talk about his upbringing in a flat for a while. Mr Rudd talks about his schooling at Nambour High. I do not think the public would except these experiences as accumulating the required scuff marks.

        I think we are limbo until we get the sweaty blacken faced coal miner just shafted by management enter politics and lead a party. If not the coal miner then maybe the hard nosed, fiercly determined business man just bankrupted by a slack labour force.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • muzz:

    17 Nov 2008 11:41:22am

    Is the glass half empty or half full? Of course it depends upon your attitude and how you view the glass.
    Blaming people who take on excessive debt can be blaming the victim of a set of scams that entice us all to keep up with the Jones'.
    The glass, in my opinion, has always had a hidden hole in it!!! As we attempt to add fill, it quietly seeps away.
    The hidden hole is the belief that growth and consumption is the measure of our success and is the salvation of our economy and society.
    It is plainly impossible to feed the greed machine without this boom and bust cycle. Poor fella who sits at the bottom of the leaking glass! Its a serious delusion that does require plain speak, a realignment of our basic values and needs and a serious set of regulations that manage the excessive greed that typifies capitalism.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • watcha:

        17 Nov 2008 12:37:43pm

        "Why not seek other formulas and admit that humankind is able to organize itself in a more rational and humane manner?" - Fidel Castro Capitalism in crisis. 2000

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Lindsay Cooper:

    17 Nov 2008 11:42:44am

    Did you notice what the result of the G20 summit meeting was.

    Every one agreed that they needed urgent action so their next get together is down for April 20 next year,
    this is what they call urgent.??????

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • les:

        17 Nov 2008 1:33:54pm

        Government definitions of 'urgent' differ from the real world, that's for sure!

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • sally:

    17 Nov 2008 11:45:56am

    I'm not sure what to make of Mr Haigh's constribution, it reads a bit like a cut and paste version of a farmer's diary. But one thing he says hits the mark: for too long we have been bombarded with spin that achieves little. Witness NSW - a basket case. Witness our PM - a wandering, aimless chatter box with no real solutions to anything much. Is this the price we pay for a media controlled agenda? Seems spin is king and will be for some time. Mr Haigh does get my vote for his call for some plain speaking, it's certainly long overdue in this country.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • moses:

        17 Nov 2008 12:33:34pm

        Sally,

        I am all for plain talk on the issue however feel I must say that whenever the current PM has attempted that he has been shot down for insighting fear in the economy, such as when he was recently giving a public address via tv.

        You cant have it both ways. Either we as a community want straight talk & are prepared to accept what is told & work with the Govt (whatever persuasion) or we dont.

        Personally I feel our current PM has given the best solutions available at this point in time. The point will alter as the crisis shifts but at the time he made the announcements for funding houndouts prior to Xmas, I (as do the majority of economists) believed it was the appropriate option.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Tom:

    17 Nov 2008 11:56:07am

    Howard, Costello, Rudd, Swan, Glen Stevens all contributed in their own way to the current mess. The Prime Mortgage was the event that started the domino effect and here we sit with the outcome, "the destruction of debt". We cannot change what has happened but must now live with the reaction of Rudd, Swan and Co. to the crisis. The consequences of their current response is too little too late as they needed to act some nine months ago. The $10B will only manage to marginally stem the bleeding for a very short time. To minimise the impact on the Australian economy petrol must be about a dollar per litre, interest rates at 2.5%, the value of the Australian Dollar must be maintained at the 70-75 cent level and a major bail out of NSW is required.

    Throwing money at the problem may in fact be the only short term solution but what will the medium to long term effect be to this action. Will this lead to spiralling interest rates and inflation come 2010-2012? What if anything will the powers that be who run this country do to ensure that their current action will not lead to double digit interest rates by 2012?



    Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • M:

        17 Nov 2008 12:16:09pm

        I think it is symptomatic of the spin culture that the Government talks about long term problems and solutions and implements a quick fix, short term policy like the $10B package to deal with these problems.

        I think we will need to wait and see what regulatory changes and other longer term measures the government proposes before we judge them on how they treat the underlying causes of the downturn.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • jak:

    17 Nov 2008 11:57:14am

    I agree that political spin has become a very irritating part of our political landscape over the last few decades.

    However, I also find it irritating when people who have absolutely no knowledge of economics feal the need to lecture others on the topic. It was very difficult not to cringe when reading this simplistic and clearly uneducated economic analysis.





    Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • Jack:

        17 Nov 2008 12:25:23pm

        I find it irritating when economists lecture on economics.
        Fairly obviously they have no idea what's happening either. Otherwise why the big crisis?

        Agree (1) Alert moderator

          • Tag:

            17 Nov 2008 12:36:32pm

            The definition of an economist:

            A person who will be able to tell you tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday did not happen today.

            Agree (0) Alert moderator

          • jak:

            17 Nov 2008 1:27:41pm

            If you don't believe that modern economics has offered us any benefits, simply compare the living standard of countries which adhere to mainstream economic advice with those that don't.

            Or compare economic crisis management over the last 150 years; eg. serious credit crunches in the past resulted in unemployment levels at 20% to 30%, now, we are only concerned with avoiding a recession - all be it, perhaps a serious recession.

            People still die - does that mean that doctors know nothing about health? Would you start lecturing about cancer treatment if your training was in political science?

            I was not criticising Bruce Haigh's politics, or his central premise that political spin has become a disturbing element of the major political parties. Rather, I though that his foray into economic analysis was unnecessary and detracted from his premise. It would be criticised by economists from all political political persuations, eg his comment:

            "What we do have is time..."

            Nearly all economists, inc. Ken Henry, Paul Krugman, Ben Bernanke, Alan Greenspan et al, despite being ideologically very different, will all tell you the same thing; we don't have time. They know this through studying other crises such as the 30's depression, the Japanese liquidity trap and the recession of the early 90's in Australia - acting early is far more effective than later.


            Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • Jack:

                17 Nov 2008 2:15:11pm

                Sorry Jak,

                Engineers (in Australia) build structures etc yet we don't have a "building crisis" with bridges falling down.

                Economics has repeatedly shown that it is not a science but some sort of wishful thinking.
                For you to say that economists have studied the past shows me they have yet to learn from it.

                Agree (1) Alert moderator

              • Tag:

                17 Nov 2008 3:05:20pm

                This recession is long overdue. It was easily predicted and explained by economic theory.

                Economics is a fundamental science. It is the study of human behaviour and the effects that behaviour has on the world. Once confidence fails, there is nothing that can be done to stop a recession.

                Everyone was holding on to their shares, watching them grow in value and waiting for the last minute to sell everything. Economists knew this recession was ready to go. They have known for years.

                They just couldnt predict the actual event which would start it off. The moment this banking crisis hit the news, the economists would have realised that the recession had begun.

                Why do you think that this crisis disproves the study of economics? If anything, it validates it.

                Wishful thinking is when we try to pretend the rules of economics dont apply.

                Agree (0) Alert moderator

              • jak:

                17 Nov 2008 3:41:21pm

                Jack, if you are right,

                Why is it that countries which consistantly ignore m